Comments on: The Red and the White ‘Terror’ in the Spanish Civil War http://rufuspollock.org/2007/03/26/the-red-and-the-white-terror-in-the-spanish-civil-war/ Wed, 18 Jan 2012 14:17:51 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.4 By: rgrp http://rufuspollock.org/2007/03/26/the-red-and-the-white-terror-in-the-spanish-civil-war/comment-page-1/#comment-5480 rgrp Fri, 06 Apr 2007 17:57:42 +0000 http://www.rufuspollock.org/archives/173#comment-5480 <p>My definite impression from Beevor's summary was that the 'White Terror' was both quantitatively and qualitatively worse than the 'Red Terror'.</p> <p>On the quantitative side the Whites killed far more people (and while I accept the point made by Wayne Woodrow that the number killed should be normalised by population under control of the particular faction I do not believe allowing for this would make much difference -- after all the Republicans controlled several of the major cities including Madrid and Barcelona for substantial periods of the Civil War).</p> <p>On the qualitative side, as Beevor writes (p. 88):</p> <blockquote> <p>The pattern of killing in 'white' Spain was indeed different [from in 'red' Spain]. The notion of a 'limpieza' or 'cleansing' formed an essential part of the rebel strategy and the process began as soon as an area had been secured. General Mola in his instructions of 30 June for the Moroccan zone, ordered the troops to 'eliminate left-wing elements, communists, anarchists, union members, Freemasons, etc.'[1] ....</p> <p>The nationalists in fact felt compelled to carry out a harsh and intense repression, partly to destroy the democratic aspirations encouraged under the Republic and partly because they had to crush a hostile majority in many areas of the country. One of General Franco's press attaches, Captain Gonzalo de Aguilera, even said to the American journalist John Whitaker that they had 'to kill, to kill, and to kill' all reds, 'to exterminate a third of the masculine population and cleanse the country of the proletariat'[3]. Between July 1936 and early 1937 the nationalists allowed 'discretionary' killing under the flag of war, but soon the repression became planned and methodically directed, encouraged by military and civil authorities and blessed by the Catholic Church.</p> <p>[Beevor then continues in the following page to provide a summary of the systematic repression and killings carried out by the rebel nationalists along with several specific examples of their activities.]</p> </blockquote> My definite impression from Beevor’s summary was that the ‘White Terror’ was both quantitatively and qualitatively worse than the ‘Red Terror’.

On the quantitative side the Whites killed far more people (and while I accept the point made by Wayne Woodrow that the number killed should be normalised by population under control of the particular faction I do not believe allowing for this would make much difference — after all the Republicans controlled several of the major cities including Madrid and Barcelona for substantial periods of the Civil War).

On the qualitative side, as Beevor writes (p. 88):

The pattern of killing in ‘white’ Spain was indeed different [from in 'red' Spain]. The notion of a ‘limpieza’ or ‘cleansing’ formed an essential part of the rebel strategy and the process began as soon as an area had been secured. General Mola in his instructions of 30 June for the Moroccan zone, ordered the troops to ‘eliminate left-wing elements, communists, anarchists, union members, Freemasons, etc.’[1] ….

The nationalists in fact felt compelled to carry out a harsh and intense repression, partly to destroy the democratic aspirations encouraged under the Republic and partly because they had to crush a hostile majority in many areas of the country. One of General Franco’s press attaches, Captain Gonzalo de Aguilera, even said to the American journalist John Whitaker that they had ‘to kill, to kill, and to kill’ all reds, ‘to exterminate a third of the masculine population and cleanse the country of the proletariat’[3]. Between July 1936 and early 1937 the nationalists allowed ‘discretionary’ killing under the flag of war, but soon the repression became planned and methodically directed, encouraged by military and civil authorities and blessed by the Catholic Church.

[Beevor then continues in the following page to provide a summary of the systematic repression and killings carried out by the rebel nationalists along with several specific examples of their activities.]

]]> By: mbj http://rufuspollock.org/2007/03/26/the-red-and-the-white-terror-in-the-spanish-civil-war/comment-page-1/#comment-5372 mbj Fri, 30 Mar 2007 23:02:42 +0000 http://www.rufuspollock.org/archives/173#comment-5372 <p>I say the "whites" behaved much worse, not just killing but terrorizing the population. When the "reds" avenged and killed in masse too it was just to show the "whites" they were not scared. A stupid move after-- and provoked by-- a malevolous one.</p> I say the “whites” behaved much worse, not just killing but terrorizing the population. When the “reds” avenged and killed in masse too it was just to show the “whites” they were not scared. A stupid move after– and provoked by– a malevolous one.

]]> By: Wayne Woodrow http://rufuspollock.org/2007/03/26/the-red-and-the-white-terror-in-the-spanish-civil-war/comment-page-1/#comment-5314 Wayne Woodrow Tue, 27 Mar 2007 19:43:48 +0000 http://www.rufuspollock.org/archives/173#comment-5314 <p>Your comment ignores the reality of the war. From its inception and throughout the war, hundreds of thousands of "candidates" for mistreatment came into the hands of the whites while the complete lack of success by the reds meant that they accrued almost no new "candidates".</p> <p>I don't think there is any reason to believe that the whites "behaved much worse" for any reason other than they kept capturing new potential victims , while the reds did not.</p> <p>Wayne Woodrow Mommio Castello (Lucca) Italy</p> Your comment ignores the reality of the war. From its inception and throughout the war, hundreds of thousands of “candidates” for mistreatment came into the hands of the whites while the complete lack of success by the reds meant that they accrued almost no new “candidates”.

I don’t think there is any reason to believe that the whites “behaved much worse” for any reason other than they kept capturing new potential victims , while the reds did not.

Wayne Woodrow Mommio Castello (Lucca) Italy

]]> By: rgrp http://rufuspollock.org/2007/03/26/the-red-and-the-white-terror-in-the-spanish-civil-war/comment-page-1/#comment-5287 rgrp Mon, 26 Mar 2007 17:38:04 +0000 http://www.rufuspollock.org/archives/173#comment-5287 <p>None in particular. I need to post interesting factlets from things I read somewhere and this site is as good as anywhere :)</p> <p>That said why I chose this particular section from that particular book is that it establishes clearly (in my mind at least) that the 'Whites' (the nationalists) behaved much worse than the 'Reds' (the republicans) in the Spanish Civil War.</p> None in particular. I need to post interesting factlets from things I read somewhere and this site is as good as anywhere :)

That said why I chose this particular section from that particular book is that it establishes clearly (in my mind at least) that the ‘Whites’ (the nationalists) behaved much worse than the ‘Reds’ (the republicans) in the Spanish Civil War.

]]> By: Tom http://rufuspollock.org/2007/03/26/the-red-and-the-white-terror-in-the-spanish-civil-war/comment-page-1/#comment-5285 Tom Mon, 26 Mar 2007 17:09:31 +0000 http://www.rufuspollock.org/archives/173#comment-5285 <p>What's point you're trying to make?</p> What’s point you’re trying to make?

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